thadieu's opera rambling outlet

fantastic il trionfo del tempo e del disinganno from milan

Edit
So, here’s the entire first half (I think), I’ll listen to 2nd half tomorrow.. but wow. And I wanted to come to Milan for this of course!! well.. we don’t get everything we wanted.. a broadcast is already really lovely.. would be so nice if somehow there’s a dvd at some point too. Oh, may be during Aix en Provence festival! Ok, I done obsessive rambling. Many many thanks again to Stray for this capture.
Part1:

Part2 (it’s a bit of a drag until minute 25, then everything is nicely picked up starting with SM 😉 . If you last until the end there’s a short interview with M.Jankova in english.

——-

Teatro alla Scala front page. Click on photo for a full-size version appreciation of WS and tie
Teatro alla Scala front page. Click on photo for a full-size version appreciation of WS and tie (and hair)

After re-listening, I thought this deserves a post of its own, especially with that cover photo!! Please head over to Teatro alla Scala’s facebook page for more GREAT pix!! They gave Disinganno a tie ❤ , on that lovely white shirt, and the hair! (and swagger!)

iltrionfo02
ok, i almost done obsessing.. dear Italian-comprehend readers, please feel free to mention what she says below :-), i understood 1 sentence though! that the orchestra is stupenda!

and while we’re on the subject of obsessing, here’s 1 last link on the production itself. Interestingly enough it was the first ever “il trionfo..” I learned about, waaaaay back when i knew nothing about Händel but saw photos with Cecilia Bartoli (!!) as Beauty, M.Mijanovic as Disinganno, and V.Genaux as Pleasure.. there’s still a bootleg video of it somewhere on the tube am sure.. And we know that this whole show is hitting the road soon at Aix en Provence festival this coming July…

This particular run, i really like all three female voices!! they’re quite impressive i find (one of the rare occasions noone is pouting! you can say they have NO time to pout given the pace! mein gott those harpsichords are rampant! And we Händel fans recognize “Bellezza” as the poor Angelica (Martina.Janková) under the hatchet of M.Mijanovic’s Orlando in Zürich, and that is why it’s not a surprise at all she’s great here. Lucia Cirillo as Piacere, i’m unfamiliar with but reallly love her take! And Disinganno? well.. i did send Stray some ❤ ❤ text messages while it was live.. let’s just say.. 🙂

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thả diều

writing-challenged opera-addict

76 responses to “fantastic il trionfo del tempo e del disinganno from milan”

  1. dehggial Avatar
    dehggial

    ok, this is what I got from what she’s saying: she’s mostly talking about Disinganno as a character, how he’s less abstract and more flesh and blood than usually in an oratorio – he’s an actual person, he’s not beyond using manipulation to get Bellezza to do the right thing. She’s also saying how they used a large orchestra at La Scala and though it’s a big hall for Handel they did what they could.

    Is this that production where Piacere breaks something/starts a fire during Come nembo?

    Reply
    1. dehggial Avatar
      dehggial

      Also she’s saying how Handel has later cannibalised this piece and reused tunes for stuff like Argante’s aria in Rinaldo (you can hear it in the overture) and Lascia ch’io pianga.

      Reply
      1. thả diều Avatar
        thả diều

        cannibalised 😉

        Reply
        1. dehggial Avatar
          dehggial

          yes, he was a bit of hungry hungry hippo 😉 Happy New Year, btw!

          Reply
    2. thả diều Avatar
      thả diều

      oh, i didn’t know Disinganno is a trouser role! i just thought they had an extra fine white shirt and tie just for her!

      thannnnks for the un-induced translation 😀 (cookie-emoticon)

      Oh, where did you see Come nembo with big fire? it sure has that scene in the photos here.
      It’s true the orchestra is pretty big in the broadcast, and fast too, left Belleza gasping for air and changed her coloratura approach as well as poor tenor flailing from behind.. but i loove the photos of the production!

      I now settled in the new office (tiny window, no desk yet…) re-listening round 3 to the 1st half. really love the music. even with crappy quality that rai3 provided none of the female voices suffered too much..

      Reply
      1. dehggial Avatar
        dehggial

        I don’t know 100% but I’m fairly sure Disinganno is supposed to be a man. In Italian “truth” is masculine.

        check this Zurich Come nembo out. Pity the sound is shit, Bonitatibus rocks this aria.

        thank you and Stray for it, I managed not to hear either thing yesterday!

        Reply
        1. thả diều Avatar
          thả diều

          oh, since you sent that clip, i must obliged to return this!!
          (and ACA can be re-listened here, via her fb site)

          you know in looking at the link you sent, that was from Zürich i believe, a much more appropriate haus for this work than gigantic la scala!
          (oh, that’s some nice fireworks at the end! i thought she was groping the nun 😀 )

          Reply
          1. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            she was totally groping the nun 😉 I took the fire to mean Piacere got all turned on 😉

          2. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            oh, i thought she was punished for trying out w/ the holy nun 😉

          3. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            that’s good too! 😀

            I forgot how greast un Pensiero nemico di pace was! the tenor is not very good for Handel.

          4. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            oh, you’re a bit further than me… am currently day-dreaming to that teatro’s front page photo and Disinganno’s first aria… (he literally got left behind by the orchestra toward the end of first act.. apparently our Nerone next year at Carnegie Hall according to Stray (since i get my pairing Ottone-what’s-her-name of SM+Invernizzi, i no care about no tenor 😀 ) )

          5. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            he’s singing that bit that VK sand in Helsinki – it wou;d’ve been so much better if SM sang it instead 😀 but she’s started already so it’s all good.

            Invernizzi will be Poppea? not bad! you’ll just have to ignore Nerone, haha. But a tenor Nerone now? sigh.

          6. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            no no, Invernizzi as that la-la woman, i kept forgetting her name.. M.Persson as Poppea.. i indifferent about her on tube.. may be live will be different.. Alessandrini and his fetish tenor-Nerone…

          7. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            Ottavia? isn’t that usually a mezzo? Curious what you’ll think of Persson, seemed too airy fairy for me up to this point. She was Poppea with von Otter I think?

            tenor Nerone is jus wrong, especially this one that doesn’t sound elastic enough. I keep thinking his voice is going to break or it’s too dry in the house.

          8. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            no no, the other one, the one take me take me, take my clothes, kill whoever you want, i’ll take credit…

          9. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            oh, Drusilla! hehehehe.

          10. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            haha, thanks.. i kept thinking.. Ottavia? no, Nutrice? no, Arnalta? no,.. that woman!!!

          11. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            your description is great!

          12. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            ps- still unsure which bit you’re talking about.. but there’s duet that the tenor starts the first half, then SM takes over in 2nd half right? then after, some blah blah from other 2 female voices, then BAM organ heaven?

          13. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            it starts at 00:39:00 or something and there is a really great organ part, yes.

          14. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            on my way.. currently at 29.. with that nice duet (that is duplicate of Ariana in Creta’s finale)

          15. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            aha, more cannibalisation!

          16. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            yes, coming right to it, exactly what i was thinking… i think this part is always split b/t tenor and Disinganno. i’ve always wanted to extract this duet, then water-music-organ-bonnanza for clip for one of my slide-show-travel-trips 🙂
            (ps- re. Disinganno as masculine.. telling you how much i know about this opera.. but i do know the music! just need one of these staging thingy to sort out who’s doing what exactly 😀 , i quite like the idea already of belleza ending at the monastery.. given her “background”, we can already build a sequel 😀 )

          17. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            I like that bit, too, I always tend to have it on repeat.

            have you ever read Justine by Marquis de Sade? it’s as unfeminist as it can get but it’s what I always imagine happening to Bellezza with these three chaps around 😉

          18. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            more unfeminist than Tancredi? but no, listening classical music is the most sophisticated thing i’ve done , but failed literature + composing classes miserably and never quite managed digging into books..
            btw, they’re taking this show on the road, i can’t be 100% sure it’s the same staging, but there is a full staging.. scattered in some odd cities in France, then to Aix en Provence.. in case it’s impossibly expensive/bad-timing in Aix, might you be tempted a trip to somewhere in france for this? E.Haïm will be conducting her orchestra.. i would have loved all 3 female singers from this production! (they’re really fantastic by my ears, compared to the many various versions i’ve heard.. though this conductor is having some huge crush on the harpsichord) , but i only know for sure SM will be there..)

          19. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            I will try to see this somewhere this year. I’ve always wanted to go to Aix for something but probably the cheapest option will win out in the end.

            oh, yea, a lot more unfeminist 😉 (synopsis)

          20. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            holy crap! reminds me of this nature show my ex once wanted to watch.. started out w/ bambi jumping around testing their new lumps on head (pre-antler) zooming out the large scale of savanna where their herd (mother, father, neighbors, friends, species) was in harmony but thirsty and had to traverse hundreds of kilometers to reach some river… first they encountered the cheetah.. after on the run with a few members less, they ran into the hyenas.. then cannibal monkeys.. then lions.. finally 1/2 the herd reached the river, bambi still happy jumping into water.. then crocodiles.. the end. afterward ex was not enthusiastic anymore about nature shows 😉

          21. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            Ha, I’ve seen a couple of those – the polar bear cubs, the little foxes – so now I just watch more general ones 😉

          22. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            omg.. i melt… that aria by Disinganno just before end of 1st half… obsession on red alert..

          23. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            ah i get it now, this clip pretty much summarizes all the cool bits for the mezzo/contralto 😀

            (this is where i was wondering what VK was trying to with her breathing and phrasing through 7.25-7.42 , and noticed how big of a contrast it was to SM’s breathing 🙂 ; i also like VK’s 2nd run at it at 10.04, she puts quite a few more trills. still can’t say i understand it yet.. the closest i came to getting it was with SM during that BBC broadcast 1.5 yrs ago, was a concert performance, i think she had more time to navigate that than this live version in Milan)
            (i also saw another clip where “Pleasure” was sung by I.Kalna! so this role is for a sop? i guess a “high mezzo” coz R.Pokupic sang it..)

          24. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            I looked up what exactly Disinganno is saying there (aria Crede l’uom) and bless poetic language of the 18th century, google translate is having a day with it. From the general context of what Bellezza, Piacere and Tempo are also saying I think he’s pitying humans for thinking they know what the workings of the fate/universe etc. are. So the way she’s doing her soft ppps (which I thought were very nice but then I always think so 😉 ) it could be interpreted Disinganno is being “gently pushy” with Bellezza. A bit patronising (but that’s how he comes off throughout) but not insensitive – “oh, poor thing, if you only knew…”.

            Pleasure definitely sounds like a high mezzo role. I don’t think I’ve ever listened to anyone else beside Boni and Hallenberg (also very good when her voice was higher) or maybe nobody else made an impression? I might’ve heard a CT as well. I should check out Kalna when I wake up.

          25. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            oh cool!! thanks for reading up the libretto, something that didn’t occur to me to do 😀 . Let me do some digging, i think i might have a translated libretto somewhere… oh, hahah, into German, that should help! here we go, English, ahh cool! #13: “spreads his hidden wings”!! “spread” is all that sprinkle of notes 🙂 🙂 . i’ll listen again today. thanks for pointing that out, this aria has been sitting in the mystery box since 2012.. on totally (un)related note, probably coz i listened to VK yesterday (but not as much as NS), i had a whole nite dream of chatting with her, she was very friendly.. didn’t ask her about Händel though!

          26. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            you and your dreams! whilst waiting for catfood to be delivered I had a dream of arguing with the delivery lady after she didn’t wait for me to come to the door (from around the house, for some reason) and then closed the door before I had time to check it and I was left outside… which was almost what happened, the delivery man was ringing the bell like mad when I thought I got there rather quickly having just woken up from that dream… please, any singer I like is welcome to join my dreams of such exciting catfood adventures 😀 they can play the delivery person, that would be funny.

            thank you for the English text, somehow it didn’t occur to me there would be one. Spreads his hidden wings, eh? So corny from A to Z! Somebody pointed out that the music is particularly pleasant for a text that says pleasure is fleeting.

          27. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            ps- flashmob delivery 😉

          28. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            ” is being ‘gently pushy’ with Bellezza. A bit patronising (but that’s how he comes off throughout) but not insensitive”
            Between this and hidden wings, i gonna have a field day today 😉

            A.Hallenberg used to sing higher? u think? or that she s not casted for higher roles now? i was suprised, but pleasantly, that she ia singing Vagaus next year, though i dont mind her as Juditha at all! the list for Piacere is quite extended to rich voice sop/mez including C.Bartoli, R.Invernizzi, V.Genaux, A.Hallenberg..

          29. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            Hallenberg as PIacere in 2001

          30. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            feeling my hair seared sitting this much lag in time and space! imagine sitting front row 😉 (but i think this might be also a consequence of artifacts of recording device altering the heft of her voice… i think phone etc. tends to make them voice a bit hooting and losing warmth.. S.Connolly also loses her heft/warmth if bad recording.. whereas the true mezzos somehow manage to retain.. (and oh i soooo happy SM didn’t lose her w/ that 2nd-country quality from rai.. she and her wings ahhh… 😉 )

          31. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            that production of Agrippina is so mad! I love it. Also Boni looks really good with the asymetrical (dykey) haircut.

          32. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            photo album reminder 😉

        2. thả diều Avatar
          thả diều

          ps- i hope you notice that was VK running around in night gown to start that clip 😉

          Reply
          1. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            panto to nightgowns! 😀

        3. thả diều Avatar
          thả diều

          damn, watching and i also concluded we were about 10 yrs late discovering all these!!

          Reply
          1. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            at least we did! now I’ve started to think that it was ok not going to the Met in the ’90s and ’00s since I don’t like their productions 😉 that’s my sour grapes of the day!

          2. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            i’ll let Stray address this 🙂 (but there is a reason i’ve never been to the MET…)

          3. stray Avatar
            stray

            Speaking as mostly a denizen of the chicken seats, productions matter less up there than singing (unless the production team throws in an easter egg or two for the nose-bleeders, which they occasionally do, zB. La Clemenza di Tito or their Tristan back in the 90’s.)

            That said, I had some pretty killer theatrical experiences in that house in the 90’s and 00’s, among them Wozzeck, Die Frau ohne Schatten, and Satyagraha. So…[shrug] 🙂

          4. stray Avatar
            stray

            And if that isn’t enough, then ASvO’s Sesto, in both the 90’s and the 00’s, was worth all the rest combined.

          5. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            🙂
            I thought as an under-sampler I didn’t qualify to make comment.. but I’m guessing since the start of my interest in operas (Dec 2008) I have not felt compelled to come to the MET.. There was one broadcast that I saw live, E.Garanca as Carmen, which I thought was cool. But that was it… I think specifically after that Carmen i saw how much “the beautiful face” sells and got tired of that kind of marketing… perhaps that, and my own interests which don’t quite aligned with the works they have there.. (such as these operas you mentioned that i still don’t know yet..). On the other hand, when i was out in LA, i quite enjoyed their works actually.. even as a casual fan.. this season they’re staging Norma with Angela Meade and Jamie Barton.. then a couple other works my friend mentioned which I would have gotten ticket for if i live there…

          6. stray Avatar
            stray

            Yes, the benefit of the nosebleeds, singers can’t easily be judged by their faces 🙂

            Since I don’t live in NYC and it’s always been a real trek from wherever I was living at the time, I’ve always had to choose carefully. So most of the things I’ve seen there over the last 35 years have been entirely worth the effort. That’s not to say everything they do would be, or that I would go more if that were possible.

            I’d go see Angela Meade and Jamie Barton in pretty much anything, though. And I will see Jamie Barton at Glimmerglass this summer, if all goes according to plan… 🙂

  2. dehggial Avatar
    dehggial

    I’m seeing Jamie Barton too – I think! In hindsight of course I would have liked to see ASvO’s Sesto, though I wouldn’t have known of Tito at the time.

    Reply
    1. thả diều Avatar
      thả diều

      same staging as garanca one, but as Stray said, if u have the right singers can bypass the rugs they wear 😉

      Reply
      1. dehggial Avatar
        dehggial

        rugs, hehe. Imagine the Salzburg Tito in that!

        Reply
      2. stray Avatar
        stray

        Ahem, Jean-Pierre Ponnelle, one of my fave productions of all time (:P), but it sucks on camera.

        But luckily Jamie Barton herself (on Tucker Gala highlights bcast from WQXR right now) is sparing you from a lengthy apologia/defense/disquisition on the retro-18th century phenomenon of the 80’s. 🙂

        Reply
        1. thả diều Avatar
          thả diều

          oh, i’ll miss her on radio, tonight w/o internet! hopefully it’ll get hooked up by tomorrow… fingers crossed.. thanks also for Carlos.. will also sort that out once i get net 🙂

          Reply
        2. thả diều Avatar
          thả diều

          ps- oh, i hate the color, it looks very bland! (and the rugs they wear, please give me a (white) shirt 😉 )

          Reply
          1. stray Avatar
            stray

            The 80’s + big hair = Lully, except when it = Ponnelle productions of Mozart.

            And the color scheme, though somewhat monochrome, made Vitellia really stand out, which I think was the point in a big huge auditorium with no cameras around. And the cameras do tend to bland it out, because they mess with the lighting. As I said, it sucks on camera.

          2. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            oh, i think we had similar experience then, you with this prod, me with capuleti in Munich that just about everyone who saw on broadcast has issues with yet those of us (whiteshirters) who saw live loved, with general diff opinions being lighting, color, and craps that looked stranged at zoomed in but very nice at large scale 🙂

          3. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            ABYSMAL LIGHTING. Just thinking about that morgue-blue tint makes me gnash my teeth.

          4. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            hmm, this comment went hiding! didn’t see it until now! which one w/ abysmal lighting? they’re all like that 😀 , unless there’s pre-word about taping for DVD, then they turn on ALL lights.. i was in Wien once.. the night everyone was buzzing about A.Neb’s Michaela (who cares about Carmen) and man there were lights EVERYWHERE in the theater, along with FIVE big ass camcorders.. but otherwise it’s the typical lighting when they shut haus light down w/ only stage light.. and you get some shade between ACA’s Nerone or ACA’s Poppea in the dark to VK’s Romeo which is quite better lighting. (the MET am sure has HUGE lights everywhere for their routine in-theater broadcasts)

          5. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            abysmal was Capuleti. But compared with ACA’s Nerone I can see what you’re saying. In the sense that you can see what’s happening but what you see is underwhelming.

            weird they had random lights for that Carmen, I mean did it make any difference for viewers?

          6. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            no no, nothing “random” about that Carmen. The Wiener staatsoper has these 2 series of super bright lights, you know those they use at football stadiums for night games? So, whenever A.Neb or some big names show and and TV crews are around, they switch those on. With those, then the broadcast looks great. Without those, broadcast looks dark like Capuleti or ACA’s Poppea/Nerone.. In real life, our eyes adjust just fine so we don’t have the issues seeing regardless (unless they shut the whole lighting system down, then we see nothing 😀 ) . On the other hand, i think the cam-corders will only catch “available lights”, which is too dark in latter case though our brain adjusts ok. I think opera haus that cares about broadcasting / making DVD will have to make sure they have these extra lights somewhere for these cam-corders.

          7. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            they have them at outdoors music festivals, too. You might be right. But in the case of Capuleti I think that stupid light was intentional. The more I think about it the more it “makes sense” if the concept is this is all happening in Romeo’s mind or whatever the concept was. Even if it makes sense it’s terrible for video.

            general booking at Wigmore is open for Stutzmann and Prina etc. (Spring and Summer). I had to get cheapest tix to everything so I could get more shows 😉 and I’m still left with two down, hope they don’t sell out by next payday.

          8. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            oh i have to check on that, Wigmore and Stutzmann!! (and orfeo55!!! in that hall!) do they list what she will sing/conduct too? Heroes from shadows? 😀 (if you could be so kind to put her dates here? i would need to search but currently reading about winds for some deadlines …)

          9. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            don’t know if you got around to it, but here’s the link. It’s only 2 July.

          10. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            thanks :), so i did find out.. and realized i can’t do anything yet on plans at that time.. as i’d like to be in Aix en Provence just a few days later too..

          11. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            in between sleeping last night i recall (might be in the dream!) trying to figure out which light you’re talking about! i can’t remember it ever occurred to me in the theater to think about the lighting.. there might have been 1 sequence in the tomb where light changes.. but i’m guessing when the whole thing is dark on stream you notice much more.. give VK credit, in theater, she took all my attention (and more 😉 )

          12. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            I mean the colour of the whole thing, it’s blue-green and it makes them all look like zombies.

            on the other hand, I’ve been listening to Il trionfo for the entire week (this version and arias from others). What a great work!

          13. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            “zombie” appearance is def a stream artifact 😉 (romeeeeooo…)
            – completely agree about Il trionfo!! i got hooked on it 1.5 yr ago.. esp. the first half.. you do need the right combo of singers and orchestra to really feel the whole flow (i reallllly like this one!!), then can run off sampling various arias.. i’ve been re-visiting this 1st part once / day this past week and haven’t made to 2nd part yet!

          14. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            ps- just done listening to the 2nd part.. it’s dragging a bit until minute 25.. then everything nicely picked up starting w/ SM 😉 . But it seems the 2nd half there’s quite a mood change, no longer harpsichord attack bonanza

          15. dehggial Avatar
            dehggial

            I haven’t listened to part II just yet, thanks for posting it.

          16. thả diều Avatar
            thả diều

            i now back to Ariodante from Barcelona 😀 (while waiting for Agrippina on radio, “highlights” from last yr in Boston..)

          17. stray Avatar
            stray

            Ha! Clearly the lesson is go see everything live!

  3. dehggial Avatar
    dehggial

    I’m halfway through part II and clicked randomly in the middle of Come nembo (I have a knack for where these arias “lie”). Cirillo isn’t Boni, the coloratura a bit laborious and the voice I guess too big? She’s too much of a mezzo for this 😉 but what annoyed me was the recording quality – you could just tell there was some nice low string work that didn’t come through as it should’ve and the string ensemble “shredding” was past muddled. Anyway, thanks for capturing and posting. You guys did what you could.

    Reply
    1. thả diều Avatar
      thả diều

      i still stuck back in part 1 again the last 2 days.. but yes, exactly my thought, she was no Boni.. I think the conductor isn’t helping… esp. in 1st half, you could tell he was determined to leave his singers in the dust.. must be quite difficult doing live and realizing you’re falling behind!
      (unrelatedly, i had a dream we were discussing something on Tito!! but forgot details, sorry :D, internet went kaput whole day yesterday so had to pop right out of bed hosting tech guy…)

      Reply
      1. dehggial Avatar
        dehggial

        there are these stairs I have to climb every day to get to the train platform. Every time I climb them I imagine being a singer singing complex live coloratura to a mad tempo! and then at the top is when the music goes into a bit of instrumental break so that I can breathe a bit 😉

        Reply
        1. thả diều Avatar
          thả diều

          😀

          Reply
  4. Mahler and Donizetti to balance the Handel | opera, innit? Avatar
    Mahler and Donizetti to balance the Handel | opera, innit?

    […] predictibly getting very friendly with this Il trionfo I thought about a feeling I’ve had in recent months – that of having […]

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